This one’s for my single friends out there…{love you all!}
I don’t know how many of you are LOST fans, but if you are, you’ve probably at least heard about or seen the new show, Once Upon a Time, which premiered on ABC on October 23rd.
We don’t have cable so we watch it on Hulu, and last night we saw episode 3, which portrays Snow White and Prince Charming meeting for the first time in the woods after she ambushed his carriage and stole a bag of jewels. Not your ordinary fairy tale, right?
But what struck me most, even though we all KNOW they end up together…at least in the story book, is how she didn’t pursue him. They accomplished their mission of retrieving the prince’s jewels from the trolls she sold them to {in the midst of saving each other’s lives a few times}. Then they said a nervous good-bye. And that was that.
He was off to marry another woman; she was returning to the forest where she was in hiding from the queen. It was clear there was attraction for both of them. But he didn’t move toward her. So she bravely turned and walked away. I was so proud of her. She glanced back just once to watch him walk away. And then was faithful to her original course of action. I’m sure it was difficult to do that. In fact, I KNOW it was. He did not give any indication that he was about to leave his fiancé to pursue her, and so she needed to let him go. I just kept saying, “Good for her!” {And the Husband said, “Sounds like a blog entry.” 
}
But this is not quite how it works in our world any more. Somewhere along the way things shifted. Once upon a time {pun intended}, men were expected to be the pursuers and the providers. And they valiantly took on these roles. In many ways this was a good thing. Men are driven to be conquerors, heroes and warriors. That may sound like a Victorian perspective, but you can’t dispute that most little boys are naturally drawn to toys and games that have them playing these roles…even when their parents don’t introduce them.
I have nothing against equal rights for women {or the courageous women who fought for them} but I am concerned about how everything has shifted, even relationally. It’s not just OK for women to pursue men, whether subtly or aggressively, it’s become the norm. And today we are almost completely blind to the overt and often sexual pursuit of men by women on TV, in movies and in real life. It’s become part of our culture. And I’m certain it’s not a good thing.
I may come off as a prude here. I’m OK with that because I’m speaking from experience. I pursued men in many ways for many years, all of it with disastrous consequences. Mostly for me, but I’m sure also in some ways for them. I struggled with all my might to get “the right guy” to like me. Sometimes he did. Sometimes he didn’t.
This was part of my husband shopping phase. And it was painful. Even when the pursuit became a relationship, it was often forced, unnatural and upside down because I had been the pursuer. I was insecure {certainly before, but also most definitely during} and these relationships just fed and watered my insecurity.
This was not something I saw in the midst of it but rather, it’s what I see now looking back. I was just such a horrible wait-er. I didn’t like to be patient. For a long time I didn’t know God, so I could never have understood the idea of trusting Him with dating and relationships. I was afraid no one would ever pursue me so I figured I needed to take the bull by the horns and accept that role myself.
And because it’s the prevalent cultural perspective—that it’s OK for women to pursue men—I didn’t consider NOT doing it. But just because we CAN do something doesn’t mean we SHOULD.
Some might argue, “But if it’s just hurting me, why should anyone care.” Therefore, she who wishes to pursue should have every right to do so. However, there are so many ways this shift in the culture has been detrimental to men as well.
There are some pretty strong opinions out there on this topic. Mark Driscoll from Seattle’s Mars Hill Church, being one of the most outspoken, made some very aggressive statements in response to an August 2010 New York Times article called What is it about 20-Somethings? Driscoll’s response was a strong calling-out of today’s young men to step up and fulfill their role to BE MEN. He calls them childish consumers, cowards and complainers, and he says we, as women, have played a role in this as well because “A legion of moms and girlfriends enable these boys who can shave….” By paying their bills, picking up after them, making excuses for them and so on. Wow!
Then there’s the more recent, and might I say excellent, article by Kevin DeYoung called Dude, Where’s your Bride? This one probably says it better than I ever could. He’s calling young women not to settle {and I would add, in doing so, not to pursue. Let him figure out that part}, and calling young men to find their ambition, take initiative and do something…including asking a woman out in pursuit of marriage.
The last thing I’ll say is this. If you pursue him, and he succumbs to your pursuit, what happens when you start to feel insecure in the relationship? Or when you WANT him to pursue and romance you? If he never had to work up the desire, effort and energy to fight for you in the beginning, why would he start now? {Please don’t take this as my suggestion to play games with the men in your life. Rather, just let them be who they are and don’t do the job of pursuing FOR them.}
I’m eager to read your comments below…
Photo credit: © GCRO Images – Fotolia.com
{ 33 comments… read them below or add one }
Amen! I couldn’t agree more!
Hi Lindsay. Thanks for stopping by and commenting!
Ah, I feel like I have to constantly remind myself of this. It’s so tough to wait, especially with all the media influences and comparison junctures.
BUT, I want God’s best. And, God’s design is for the guy to pursue the girl. Like you, it’s turned out very poorly for me when I’ve pursued a guy (subtly, of course). Two guys convinced themselves they liked me (at different times) and asked me out. Less than two months later, they checked out. All I was left with both times was a broken heart. One that was broken for months afterward. And, for what? Momentary belonging and kind of rocky relationships. While I know both of these failed relationships are part of what makes me who I am now, I don’t want to wander down that road again. I’m a little more prone to trying to talk a guy out of dating me now. I want a guy who can’t be talked out of it. One who’s sure I’m the gal for him.
There’s no rest for the gal who’s not *sure* her guy likes her. It’s all about performance and measuring up. That’s not where I want to spend my life. I just want my guy to love me, quirks and all. That will be a beautiful love.
Thanks for this super-great post and friendly reminder, Merritt!
Kim – you are so right – this is much easier said than done and requires a constant reminder that “hooking” him using our feminine wiles (does it date me to say that?) will often backfire because his initial temptation was not toward something that was lasting.
But just like touching a hot stove, we’ll learn when we get burned. Ouch!
A pursuing man is worth waiting for. There’s no life or hope in a relationship that’s all about performance. It truly is beautiful when we allow him to play the role he’s meant to play and challenge him to be all God made him to be.
Thanks for your encouraging comment!
Great post! I think it’s so true how insecurity plays a role in this. Women have such a need to feel loved, and when we pursue, we question whether our partner loves us the way we love them. As someone who has done both (with the same man) I can say I am much more secure after we started over on his time table.
Not that sometimes being the pursuer once in this committed relationship is wrong. I have fun “taking my turn” after so many years of my Hubs pursuing me! And I love making him feel special with little messages and special gifts that show I’m crazy about him.
Amen to that Melissa! I think, once married, that pursuing your husband is an important part of the relationship. It grows your commitment to each other and is a way to demonstrate that he’s the only one for you. Thanks for commenting!
I actually have mixed feelings about this issue. I don’t think men are taught how to pursue or take the initiative anymore, so there are many good Christian men who just don’t know how to take the lead. I think they desire to take the lead, but they are afraid of the unknown and the risk of failure. This doesn’t mean we as women should toss them aside, waiting for a guy who will step it up ten more notches.
I also have experienced that some of the best “pursuers” are also the men who are most experienced with women and have often used women in the past. They are the charmers who know how to get their way, who know how to make women feel what.
I would advise young women to just be wary. Every situation is different, every woman is different, every man is different, and every relationship is different.
I desperately wanted to be pursued, but my now-husband had never been in a relationship before the one we started. He was very shy and not as comfortable with taking the first steps. We talked at length and approached our relationship together and with God. I don’t have this incredible romantic story of how he pursued me, although he did at times in small ways. I just know he was/is worth it, he was kind and caring, and his heart was in the right place. He just needed (and still needs) to learn.
Just my 2 cents! I think the culture has done a lot to men and to women, and we need to find a way of healing — I don’t think heightening our expectations of guys without teaching and mentoring them is going to fix it.
Love the entry & love the way it made me think!
Hi Lisa – such an excellent response with really great points! I agree, men aren’t learning this…I would propose because they don’t HAVE to in our culture today. Women make it easy for them not to learn it. It’s no excuse, but I totally agree that it’s difficult to expect someone to do something when they haven’t been shown the way…especially if it SEEMS counter-cultural. And truly, they should be learning it from older men–a great reminder to guys that even if they’re just one or two steps ahead in maturity or experience, they should be reaching out to mentor and bring up the younger guys. This is SO important.
I also relate to your experience. The Husband was never in a relationship before ours. And he was 38 when we started dating. It wasn’t for lack of trying, but it meant that our story looked different than I hoped it would. Partly my problem (for hoping in a fairy tale) and partly his, having to learn along the way what he never got to practice before. I don’t think I’d trade it for anything now.
Thanks so much for your thoughtful and important response. I agree with you in so many ways…my issue is really with the women (including me) who try to make things happen without allowing the guy to really determine if he even WANTS to pursue her.
For guys out there looking for a little help, I really like Cory Copeland’s blog and this particular entry called “A Guide to Dating and Treating Women Right for Today’s Modern Male” – http://ht.ly/7xXvx
Thanks again Lisa! Great to hear your thoughts.
“There’s no rest for the gal who’s not *sure* her guy likes her. It’s all about performance and measuring up. That’s not where I want to spend my life. I just want my guy to love me, quirks and all. That will be a beautiful love.”
IMO, this nails it. Men do need to take the initiative, but to me, it’s less about pursuing, and more about mutual honesty, vulnerability, and eliminating unrealistic expectations. Admittedly, most men have just as much fear of rejection as women do; if not more so.
The culture we live in doesn’t make it any easier–quite frankly, the mind-set of “boy toys” really stings, and pornography’s objectification and sexualization of women is equally damaging to both sexes. We need to admire, love, and respect each other as we are commanded in Scripture–that’s the only place where relationships can thrive. It’s a huge reminder to me that God’s laws and commands are not arbitrary or draconian; they are for our protection, long-term good and benefit, and by following them we honor God.
Gregory – thanks so much for adding the male perspective. I, too, loved that same paragraph Kim wrote. It is so true. Relationships are hard enough without feeling like you have to perform for the other’s love. And I would say that when a man takes the risk to initiate with honesty and vulnerability, communicating his expectations clearly it often gives a woman the freedom to do the same. Not that she shouldn’t be honest and vulnerable (within reason), but it makes all the difference when he takes the lead in making it safe to do so. I would call that pursuit. And courage. And we need that from our men! Thanks for your comment!!
I would like to give a huge “THANK YOU” to you, Merritt. I have been struggling with this very topic, in my head, for the better part of six months. Your perspective couldn’t make more sense. It stinks to go about a relationship all wrong. Thanks again! I look forward to more inspirational and educational blogs from you!!!
Awww thanks Christie for your sweet comment! I wish I’d figured it out sooner, but I’m grateful for loving friends who helped me see things differently and gave me courage to wait for the one who was willing to pursue.
Merritt, thanks for this post. This topic is very near-and-dear to my heart. I know that I’m not alone in the dozens of conversations I’ve had with my girlfriends about relationships, each person with their own set of opinions and thoughts on how to do it best. But one thing that seems to be unchanging in all my conversations is that women want a love that is consistent and stable and something they don’t feel the need to question. Men want (so I’m told!) respect that is demonstrated by authentically responding to their leadership. What better way for both people to get what they’re looking for than to allow the man to pursue the woman?!??! It’s hard to imagine that either of them could get what they’re looking for any other way. God’s way is always the best way, but our faith in this statement demands to be lived out. For me, it came down to deciding whether or not I truly trusted God to provide me with His best. He did not let me down!
Thank you for your thoughts and for starting a great dialog.
Hi Mikele! Thanks so much for your thoughtful comment. I love this, “…but our faith in this statement demands to be lived out.” So true! And living it out is not always easy but the perceived “sacrifice” is so worth it. Thanks so much for stopping by. Great to hear from you!
Enjoying the posts! Still wonder, years later, if so many rejections from women just showed me that I did not belong “in the game” in the first place.
People think that I am great guy and a good person, but women were never
impressed. Thanks for shedding some light on a very difficult topic.
HI Dave, thanks so much for your comment! Love hearing a perspective from male readers! This is definitely a difficult topic…and emotional on both sides of the equation. Hopefully we are all learning as we try…and fail…and get up to try again. Thanks again for stopping by!
FWIW, I can certainly appreciate the expectation women have of men initiating, but frankly, I’ve never understood the “playing-hard-to-get” philosophy. To me, that just smacks of insincerity and treating relationships like a cheap game. I have no respect whatsoever for that kind of perspective and mentality.
HI Greg – I totally agree…playing games of any kind does nothing to communicate sincerity or respect for another person. I’m not sure where that idea came from, but it’s certainly part of our culture. Makes me think it’s still around from a different era wherein it was a “test” to ensure HIS sincerity. But to me it sounds more like a forced attempt to get him to pursue. Honesty is always the best policy, but fortunately or unfortunately, it takes two to have an honest conversation. Thanks for commenting!
Dave and Mike,
I just found the website today. I know this is coming 3 quarters of a year after your post. Hopefully it will help you out. If you are running into so many rejections, it doesn’t mean you don’t belong in the game; it means you are playing the game wrong. It’s not just a matter of how you pursue a woman. It’s a matter of permission to pursue – a key reason why the average guy has been shut down so many times that he skips it.
Most guys, believe it or not, have little to no game because they can’t see how people work at that resolution and they didn’t have anyone teach them or give them an effective paradigm on how things work. Hopefully this will give you some corrective glasses on the issue.
Think of how birds play the game. The birds are flying around and once in a while the female will stop and give the male a chance to show his feathers. Then after she sees the display, she makes a choice. It sounds like you are going in cold, before she has made the decision to listen to your story. Watch the eyes to see if there is an interest. I also wait for an emotional feeling like she just took a step or leaned towards me. It’s amazing, women who are physically unapproachable, if they want you to talk to them, will actually go as far as putting themselves in physical locations so you can approach them.
After you have permission to approach, you can go make small talk. Like I said, most men don’t have game, so as long as you don’t write yourself off, you’re usually golden. If you are writing yourself off, figure out what you are saying wrong.
That said, as a boy who shaved, I dated a lot before recklessly pursuing God. He brought men alongside me to mentor me into an upright man. I waited on God for years until he finally brought the right woman into my life. This woman is everything I knew I wanted and needed, and a whole bunch of other things I didn’t realize I needed. All the majors match and the minors don’t matter. Nothing I was able to find on my own strength before now was even 10% the fit that I have found.
God will provide if you recklessly follow him (Psalm 37:4). Then all you have to do is be the Christian man He has formed you into and she will continue to recognize you. Real men look like Jesus.
I couldn’t agree with you more. As a 24 year old career woman, and happily single, I am somewhat concerned for women and girls today, as well as for men. Love- marriage- is not only barely [or rarely] considered sacred, the romance is slowly being removed. So many women are so insecure [largely induced by the media's opinion and definition of them] that they feel they have to ‘man-up’ to get the man. So many men today are also insecure but also lacking in the commitment sot here is a lack of pursuit and romance [again largely a result of the media's opinion and definition of men]. I believe we were created for love and romance but in a way that it can be shown the best. I definitely have made my share of mistakes in trying to pursue the guy that [as you also said] the pursuit became the relationship and I was no closer to a solidly founded relationship than I was in the beginning. I believe that in order for relationships to work well and for the man and woman to compliment each other, it means allowing for each other to step into a role that suits them. I do not mean that women have to be Betty Homemaker waiting for her dream guy, but I do mean allowing for men to be the warrior poet [Braveheart reference ; ) ha] pursuing man rather than busting his chops and doing it yourself. And bonus, I believe it creates a stronger foundation and respect for one another. Hope that makes sense- I wrote this pretty quickly.
Hi MJ –
Thanks so much for your thoughts. I totally agree. We listen WAY too much to what the media tells us we should be. We stop listening to our hearts and the souls God gave us and fall into roles that have us forcing ourselves into situations where we don’t belong.
Thanks so much for your comment on this months-ago-post that I thought was too good to not put out there again!
Your last paragraph makes so much sense. I have always been the pursuer and ended up with men that never ended up giving me the romantically assertive side that I craved from them… It’s so funny but up until reading this right now, I never realized how if a man doesn’t pursue from the start, that says a lot about his character and how he will be down the road. Love it! Thank you for posting such fantastic insight!
Thanks RMarsh, I think it took me a long time to figure that out as well. I always wondered why they weren’t as enamored with me as I was with them. It’s difficult to wait and just let him figure it out, but in the end, I would never want to have to convince a guy he wanted to be with me. That just has regret written all over it. Thanks for sharing your thoughts; I’m glad this post turned on a light bulb for you.
I want to be careful with both what I’m saying and the way I’m saying it here because I don’t want to come off as That Impertinent Youth or as That Guy Who Trolls Other People’s Blogs. I haven’t ever been married so I can’t say I know what it takes to get there. I just wanted to present an alternative viewpoint and raise some questions about the views presented above.
Since college I’ve worked to support myself, lived on my own without asking either of my parents for support, and moved across the country by myself to attend graduate school in nuclear astrophysics. Many of my friends would say that am assertive and do much of the initiation in our respective relationships. I’m definitely NOT saying these things to puff myself up and I hope it doesn’t come across that way. I want to use these things to show that even according to Mark Driscoll’s words in the article I think I would qualify as a Man, as a “creator and cultivator.” I wouldn’t call myself a “boy who shaves” (also I don’t shave so Mark is probably happy about that).
And yet, I’m not a warrior. I’m not one of the “most boys” that you mention above. Even with an assertive personality I was always drawn to more isolated, scholarly pursuits as a child. I read math books and played with Legos. I drew comics. I guess the archetype would be “wizard.” I have dealt with insecurity and anxiety for most of my life, and to be honest I don’t know that that’s ever, ever going to go away. This makes it hard for me to start new relationships, but of course I do it because it’s important and necessary.
Now, I have been in two serious, long-term dating relationships since I entered college so long ago, and in both cases I did the “pursuing.” In both cases, the relationship ended up falling apart because the gals in question didn’t invest enough initiative in the relationship to, in Kim Wilson’s words above, make me sure I was wanted/needed/liked/loved/etc. It became about performance and I wore myself out trying to “lead” the relationship enough to sustain it, which obviously didn’t work. All of the questions you ask in your final paragraph, and the experience RMarsh relates in her comment, could both echo my sentiments with the gender pronouns flipped. It was heartbreaking, a word which I’m not using lightly but to try to show solidarity with the way Kim describes how she felt.
I’m mentioning these things because in all of the discussion on this post, I’m not sure they’re addressed as possibilities. You allow that not all boys fall into the category of conquerors, but then you still imply that all men should do the “conquering” (not best choice of term on my part but I hope the analogy is clear) by virtue of denying that any women should do it. Some of the female commenters use having pursued men to ill effect as evidence that women shouldn’t pursue men, but where does that leave me, and guys like me, after many failed attempts at pursuing women? By this logic shouldn’t I be able to say that maybe it’d be better to wait for a woman to show her strength of character by pursuing me first? And yet, Pastor Mark, Pastor Kevin, and this post would all seem to eschew that possibility. Is there a middle ground? Is it possible to take things on a case-by-case basis? Are waiting for God to provide a man and taking the initiative in starting a relationship with that man necessarily mutually exclusive for all women?
Again I’m not trying to start a flame war here but offer an alternate perspective as a Christian brother who’s not had the best experience “taking the bull by the horns.” I wholeheartedly agree that across the board men need to grow up, and I definitely disapprove of the over-sexualization of relationships from both sides as portrayed in the media. I really appreciate comments like Lisa’s that show relationships can flourish without necessarily adhering to absolute gender norms. Sorry that this comment was much too long. Thanks for writing such a good conversation-starter of a post.
Yikes, also sorry that my html tags don’t seem to have worked the way I wanted. I was just shooting for italicization, not giving the words a line of their own. Sorry.
Well, I’m not really sure why that happened. Everything in the code looks totally normal.
Hi Mike, First of all, will you forgive me for being slow to respond? I initially read your comment late at night as I was heading to bed and wanted to respond right away but knew it would be best to sleep on it. Ah…I guess I “slept” for a week or so.
You make some really great points here. And the last thing I want to do is put people in a box. It is why I used the word “most” rather than “all” when referring to men, but I hear you that it doesn’t do justice to the men who aren’t or don’t feel part of that “most.” It’s just that the “most” are the ones I have experience with.
You ask a lot of great questions that I’m not sure I can answer here. In fact, as I read this last week, I considered that maybe my husband would be the best person to respond to you because I know he could relate to you–having never had more than a few dates in his life (until me). I won’t speak for him, but I do know he would tell you that his pursuit of me was UNLIKE any other relationship he tried to pursue.
So, I would pose this to you, in considering your relationships that have failed. It might not be that YOU were the wrong type of guy but rather that SHE was the wrong girl…as in not the one for you. Or maybe it wasn’t the right TIME. Or the right CIRCUMSTANCES. I promise you, if my husband had pursued me any earlier than he did it wouldn’t have worked. He wasn’t ready. Neither was I.
That being said, if you feel called to marriage (rather than singleness), I urge you not to give up. And yet, not to put the woman in the position of having to prove herself or her “love” by pursuing you. Sure, you can wait for her to show her strength of character but I would lean towards things like honesty, vulnerability, compassion, and kindness as a better definition (and not necessarily a “feminine” one) for “character” than “pursuit.”
And “warrior” or not, I still believe God put something in every man that makes him uniquely created to pursue (are there other things you’ve “pursued” in life? I might start there). However, it might not look like what I’ve described in this post. And yes, it might be painful. But I still believe it’s possible. And I think you’ll know it when you see it.
Thanks so much for your thoughtful comment. I hope you’ll stick around.
And…I’ll see what I can do about those line breaks.
I totally agree with Mike.
Our personalities are God given – God gives some women more aggressive personalities and some men quieter ones. They shouldn’t be bound to act in ways contrary to their God-given personality because “that’s how God designed it to be.” There really isn’t Scriptural evidence to suggest that men need to be “the pursuer” and women need to be “the reciever.” People throw around the Bride and Christ parallel all the time, but I think that speaks less to gender roles and more to unity. I think reading gender roles into that passage is just that – reading something into that passage. You could also make a case for women pursuing men by looking at Ruth and saying that that woman pursued Boaz pretty hard.
I think gender roles in this case are more of a societal/cultural thing than a Biblical thing and it makes me frustrated to hear people place so much emphasis on this pursuing/being pursued thing when it’s clear the Bible doesn’t place as much emphasis on that but really places more emphasis on how you’re supposed to act in the relationship. I think a relationship that is modeled on Christ’s love isn’t one that is particularly concerned about who is pursuing and who isn’t- it should be more mutual than that. No?
Hi Jen,
Thanks so much for your thoughtful comments. When examining the Bible, we are truly challenged by the fact that the culture we live in is so very different from theirs. This is definitely an area where I have a lot of room to grow and study.
I can’t say that I agree or disagree that there’s no scriptural evidence…I’ll need some time to consider that in my own study. But I CAN say that I did not pursue Christ. And from what I understand of scripture, none of us do. He woos us to Himself. He pursues us. In our sinful nature we want nothing to do with Him but would prefer to go our own way. That’s our reality. And so then, it is even more beautiful and awe-inspiring that the Lord would still come after us, still pursue us. Like the father waiting at the gate for his prodigal son to return.
Maybe that’s not the perfect example to translate to a human relationship between a man and woman moving towards marriage. However, there is great evidence of God the Father’s pursuit of us.
I agree that IN marriage the pursuit is mutual. It has to be. It might look different for each person and each couple. But in a healthy marriage it’s there.
What I dispute is that women should pursue men. Yes, I realize that flies in the face of our cultural norms and expectations. And no, I’m not saying we go back to the way things were in the 1950s and before. I’m just saying that there is something in us–as women–something that seeks to control, manipulate, seduce and exhibit power. It’s part of our curse from Genesis 3. And I do believe that such pursuit can cause problems in the balance of a relationship.
In some ways, this is my opinion because it was my experience. But there’s no mistaking the value (and difference) of a man’s pursuit of me…of God’s pursuit of me…of God’s pursuit of the Church. It’s purely different from my pursuit of him or Him.
As far as Ruth, I will admit there was a boldness in her laying at Boaz’s feet. I’m trying to think of a current cultural norm that would be equivalent…something else to ponder as well, I guess.
Thanks again for your thought-provoking comment.
A lot of women ( and pickup-artist-instructors ) INSIST that it is the male’s
“duty” ( and/or natural desire?) to pursue. With fewer and fewer men approaching women, there are derogatory labels placed upon men who do wait for women to approach them.
If it is the woman’s choice in the end, then let them do the approaching.
Hi Dave – Obviously, I respectfully disagree with who should be the pursuer….but also with it being “the woman’s choice in the end.” I believe both people have a choice. If not, who would want to be in that kind of marriage anyway?
Hi, Ms. Merritt – If I understand you correctly, if the man does not “play the game” and do the approach, then women look poorly upon him. If men should be the “pursuers” ( and I STILL have never a valid reason other than that women want it that way) and do not pursue, than they must be punished. Women chose that, not men. If the game is changing, maybe men do not see much of a choice.
What other issues will women raise under the reasoning that “you are the man, so do what I think you are supposed to do”?